Curse

Mercury Angel · Jun 26, 2005, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Because there're none on the site listed under the skill. Unfortunately, all 4 of my slots are currently in use with RP characters that I'm not ready to delete, so I haven't had the oppurtunity to see them in action for myself.

Please bear in mind, the skills and numbers are tentative, and the superior runes in some cases are certainly not necessary. Dropping them for lesser runes may very well be a good choice.
==
R/N

Expertise: 10 +4
Marksmanship: 8 +1
Beast Mastery: 5 +1
Curses: 11

Rigor Mortis
Spinal Shivers
Marksman's Wager {E}
Concussion Shot
Distracting Shot
Favourable Winds
Tiger's Fury
Resurrection Signet

Idea here is a fast firing bow with an Icy mod. Concussion Shot and Distracting Shot were more toss-ups than anything else, although I'm sure they can be useful at times. Favourable Winds speeds up the arrow movement, Rigor Mortis completely denies them from evading/blocking. Marksman's Wager should provide 10 energy per succesful hit, to counteract the energy loss when interrupting. Tiger's Fury lets you hit more often and interrupt faster. Expertise cuts most of the skill costs in half, a little more although the amount is largely negligable.
None of the above branches are likely to help with self preservation, if you need it, and that means significant changes.
===

Me/N

Illusion: 7 (+3)
Inspiration: 11 (+4)
Curses: 11

Spinal Shivers
Arcane Conundrum
Power Drain
Leech Signet
Energy Drain {E}
Energy Tap
Mantra of Persistance
Resurrection Signet

Arcane Conundrum slows their casting rate, and with Mantra of Persistance, it will last 24 seconds with the stats above. Spinal Shiver to interrupt frequently, and 4 sources of energy to fuel continued use of your skills (Along with further helping to interrupt, especially should spinal shivers not be ready).
Ether Feast is of course welcome if you need a self preservation skill, although once you're under fire, I'm not sure it'll help much alone.
===

Ne/W

Blood Magic: 10 (+3)
Curses: 11 (+4)
Axe Mastery: 10

Awaken the Blood
Spinal Shivers
Rigor Mortis
Offering of Blood
Dismember
Axe Rake
Flurry
Resurrection Signet

Obviously, sword isn't a bad choice instead, I just chose axe because of its high damage and equally fast attack rate. Gash and Sever Artery would be equally annoying while not being able to heal yourself effectively, although, hamstring costs 10 energy to use >.<. Simple swaps though. Whatever the choice may be, an Icy mod is required again.
In any case, Spinal Shivers while under Awaken the Blood only causes 4 energy loss per hit. Offering of Blood will net you ~20 energy at the cost of 15% of your max health while Awaken the Blood is on.
You hit the enemy around rapidly, using flurry if necessary, and keep them interrupted until they die.
Cripple and Deep Wound to make it harder for them to escape, less effective healing, and less max health.
I'd definitely reconsider warrior skills, as I rarely play them and have little working knowledge of what is effective as one. I just picked 2 adrenal skills that looked good linked to an axe that'd contribute somewhat, and Flurry for speed, which also means more adrenaline despite the somewhat prohibitive costs of the skills I chose.
There're a large number of blood and curses skills to swap in to increase your ability to keep yourself alive, if that's what you desire.
===

arredondo · Jun 26, 2005, 09:25 AM // 09:25

For those that don't know much about Spinal Shivers, I put my original findings here:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=25113

Quote:

Spinal Shivers

Description: For 12-26 seconds, whenever target foe is struck for cold damage, that foe is interrupted and you lose 10-6 Energy or Spinal Shivers ends.

Energy Cost 10
Casting Time 2 seconds
Recharge Time 15 seconds
Skill Type Hex Spell
Linked Attribute Curses

In it you'll understand how great it can be as an addition to many builds with a Necro.

Mecury, since our lasts posts there, I've been able to get more practice with my builds. Here's what I've been using for my MeNe in arenas (Runes and bonuses included):

Illusions - 15
Curses -11
Inspired Hex - 4
Fast Cast for the rest.

Of course I have my required Cold-based weapon, a +5E Cesta for 11-19 damage. Skills for now:

----------------
1 - Distortion. With Illusion so high, I get a -1E loss if successful, 5E to cast.

2. Illusion of Weakness. 240(!) health in reserve for when I need it most, effectively taking me to near 730 health altogether. 10E that is used only once pre-fight.

3. Spinal Shivers... my pride and joy! At 11 Curses, you only lose six energy each interrupt for 25 seconds of free Monk Molestation =D. Ok, any caster really. Only 10E.

4. Rez Signet, because I'm a good teammate in the arenas

5. Inspired Hex (exchangeable). Defensively I don't like to be forced to take punishment from as many things as I can, ergo a cheap anti-Hex spell. I only get 4 of the 5 energy cast back as a refund, but single hexes don't hurt me. I will also consider Hex breaker for 68 seconds of total hex protection, and easily spammable when used up.

6. Migraine (E). As I told you in my original skill write up, the beauty of Spinal Shivers comes out if you can quickly interrupt with a Warrior co-profession (Flurry/Frenzy) or slow down casting with a Mesmer co-profession. Here I like the -3 degen bonus and longer hex time of 20 seconds over Archane Conundrum. Only 10E to cast.

7. Conjure Phantom. An easy way to bump the -3 degen above up to -8 degen total. Lasts 14 seconds, recharges fast (to cast elsewhere), reasonable cost of 10E for a -5 degen.

8. Plague Touch. Non-linked skill for 5E to remove any conditions on me.

----------------

The first thing that appealed to me with these skills is the low energy requirements. Migraine is about the only one you need to re-cast that is 10E. All the defensive skills are 5E! You shouldn't have much problems having energy since once you cast Spinal Shivers, you are recharging energy as you toss Cold projectiles.

Here's how well it works. I call the target... usually the monk, maybe an ele. Everybody goes in and wallops, but sometimes I may find myself solo. Either way, the caster is completely in danger and ineffective. -8 degen (Conjure P., Migraine) then Spinal Shivers is cast.

Now I am on full recharge energy mode as I simply spam my Necro Cold-based Cesta to interrupt everything they do skill wise. I am also defensively protected from three different situations:

- If a Warrior or two comes at me, I easily stand my ground with Distortion spam. It helps in kiting for energy/health recharge too, and with 240 health in reserve, I don't feel like a vulnerable caster in the thick of battle.

- If I get hit with a condition, Plague Touch gives it to someone else (likely the caster I target).

- If I get a hex put on me Inspired Hex takes it off and resends it to whomever I want (likely the caster I target).

As you can see, I get extra offense from a lot of my defense. Usually, no monk can last six or seven seconds if I am Spinal Shivering his casts while teammates of mine wail on him. I ALWAYS look to enemy teammates when one is near death to Spinal Shiver any rez attempts. The most rewarding feeling in a SS build is to interrupt a Rez signet cast attempt three or four times in a row as they die trying to revive, lol.

The alternative build I've used is to switch in Wastrel's Worry, tone down all Inspiration and Illusion to 12 so I can have a decent Domination line for WW damage. This, as I described before, keeps opponents from kiting your Cold casts.

No build is perfect, but as you know now Spinal Shivers is definitely a nice teamwork specialty to have in most generic fights. I'll comment on your builds in the next post.

arredondo · Jun 26, 2005, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercury Angel

==
R/N

Expertise: 10 +4
Marksmanship: 8 +1
Beast Mastery: 5 +1
Curses: 11

Rigor Mortis
Spinal Shivers
Marksman's Wager {E}
Concussion Shot
Distracting Shot
Favourable Winds
Tiger's Fury
Resurrection Signet

Idea here is a fast firing bow with an Icy mod. Concussion Shot and Distracting Shot were more toss-ups than anything else, although I'm sure they can be useful at times. Favourable Winds speeds up the arrow movement, Rigor Mortis completely denies them from evading/blocking. Marksman's Wager should provide 10 energy per succesful hit, to counteract the energy loss when interrupting. Tiger's Fury lets you hit more often and interrupt faster. Expertise cuts most of the skill costs in half, a little more although the amount is largely negligable.
None of the above branches are likely to help with self preservation, if you need it, and that means significant changes.
===

I don't have a Ranger build yet to test it, but it sounds like one of the best uses of Spinal Shivers. With the longer attack range and Rigor Mortis, there's no where to run and still stay in range to cast for the enemy. I may test Rigor Mortis myself over Wastrel's Worry to deal with kiters.

Besides the lack of defense, I'm concerned with the idea of casting so many things to get the best results. It looks like there are four casts before the first interrupt arrow is shot, lol. I could be wrong since I don;'t use the ranger, but there's more than enough skils there to maximize SS's usefulness.

Quote:

Me/N

Illusion: 7 (+3)
Inspiration: 11 (+4)
Curses: 11

Spinal Shivers
Arcane Conundrum
Power Drain
Leech Signet
Energy Drain {E}
Energy Tap
Mantra of Persistance
Resurrection Signet

Arcane Conundrum slows their casting rate, and with Mantra of Persistance, it will last 24 seconds with the stats above. Spinal Shiver to interrupt frequently, and 4 sources of energy to fuel continued use of your skills (Along with further helping to interrupt, especially should spinal shivers not be ready).
Ether Feast is of course welcome if you need a self preservation skill, although once you're under fire, I'm not sure it'll help much alone.
===

I gave my MeNe build that I've successfully used above. Yours is defensively vulnerable, but that's less of a problem if you have dedicated teamates to snuff out your hexes, conditions, and guard you from Warrior/Ranger madness. Looks like you're doing energy denial over damage, so perhaps Mind Wrack can be squeezed in.

Quote:

Ne/W

Blood Magic: 10 (+3)
Curses: 11 (+4)
Axe Mastery: 10

Awaken the Blood
Spinal Shivers
Rigor Mortis
Offering of Blood
Dismember
Axe Rake
Flurry
Resurrection Signet

Obviously, sword isn't a bad choice instead, I just chose axe because of its high damage and equally fast attack rate. Gash and Sever Artery would be equally annoying while not being able to heal yourself effectively, although, hamstring costs 10 energy to use >.<. Simple swaps though. Whatever the choice may be, an Icy mod is required again.
In any case, Spinal Shivers while under Awaken the Blood only causes 4 energy loss per hit. Offering of Blood will net you ~20 energy at the cost of 15% of your max health while Awaken the Blood is on.
You hit the enemy around rapidly, using flurry if necessary, and keep them interrupted until they die.
Cripple and Deep Wound to make it harder for them to escape, less effective healing, and less max health.
I'd definitely reconsider warrior skills, as I rarely play them and have little working knowledge of what is effective as one. I just picked 2 adrenal skills that looked good linked to an axe that'd contribute somewhat, and Flurry for speed, which also means more adrenaline despite the somewhat prohibitive costs of the skills I chose.
There're a large number of blood and curses skills to swap in to increase your ability to keep yourself alive, if that's what you desire.
===

Since I only tested a WaNe to see how it woked with Flurry/Frenzy, I can't comment on your build too much (not enough Warrior experience either). However, you can still use a Cold Cesta in another hand for when you are maintaining distance from the enemy and still get Flurried SS interrupts with ease. maybe easier since getting in close attracts unwanted attention from caster defenders.

Remember, you still only have caster armour on, so you are pretty vulnerable going in that deep for interrupts with out skill protections. Consider Obsidian Flesh for the extra health bonus.

Jasso · Jun 26, 2005, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Lets say you have 50 energy. You cast Spinal Shiver on a caster. Your teammate warrior comes in and starts slashing your target with cold based weapon. Every hit interrupts but you loose, lets say, 6 energy. You can sustain about 8 hits (ok, i know you have energy regen, so maybe it lets you take 2 hits more) and then you are you of energy. With flurry warrior strikes about 1 hit/0,9 secs (i might be wrong about this).

So,

50 energy / 6 = 8,3 hits you can sustain
8 hits * 0,9 secs/hit = 7,2 secs (time to hit all 8 hits)
4 energy regen = 1,3 energy / sec
1,3 * 7,2 secs = about 9 energy -> lets you get 1 more hit

Conclusion : Warrior may attack total of 9 or 10 hits before you run out of energy. It may work or may not. Hope you can test that build out to see how it works

Mercury Angel · Jun 26, 2005, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasso

Lets say you have 50 energy. You cast Spinal Shiver on a caster. Your teammate warrior comes in and starts slashing your target with cold based weapon. Every hit interrupts but you loose, lets say, 6 energy. You can sustain about 8 hits (ok, i know you have energy regen, so maybe it lets you take 2 hits more) and then you are you of energy. With flurry warrior strikes about 1 hit/0,9 secs (i might be wrong about this).

So,

50 energy / 6 = 8,3 hits you can sustain
8 hits * 0,9 secs/hit = 7,2 secs (time to hit all 8 hits)
4 energy regen = 1,3 energy / sec
1,3 * 7,2 secs = about 9 energy -> lets you get 1 more hit

Conclusion : Warrior may attack total of 9 or 10 hits before you run out of energy. It may work or may not. Hope you can test that build out to see how it works

Spinal Shivers hits 4 energy loss only at 17 curses, which I've checked personally on my necromancer. Of course, as with Thunderclap, you need a mode of energy management.
Unfortunately, because the damage has to be cold, you can't use the Zealous mod also, but that is why each different build addresses energy needs differently.

Ranger gains more energy than lost using Marksman's Wager. Mesmer steals energy, and interrupts skills when Spinal Shivers isn't on to regain energy, and further contribute to the build. The necromancer has Offering of Blood for bursts of energy.

When interrupted, the target's skill is counted as used. Any energy used to attempt to cast it is lost without the effect, and the recharge timer still occurs. You cause them loss of resources and shut them down.
You also don't just interrupt spells, you can interrupt any other skills. Attempts to use a heal, attack skill, a signet, whatever, can all be interrupted. In that manner, you can get a pretty large advantage over a person by preventing them from doing much of anything.

Especially if you're using the necro with high curses, what's 4 energy loss compared to 5 or more from the opponent? If they're denied more resources than you lose, then you still come out ahead, do you not? And unlike them, you only lose energy. Their skills are blacked out to recharge where applicable. (Skills like Resurrection Signet could be interrupted, but without a recharge timer, can be attempted over and over again without any residual penalty.)

arredondo · Jun 26, 2005, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasso

Lets say you have 50 energy. You cast Spinal Shiver on a caster. Your teammate warrior comes in and starts slashing your target with cold based weapon. Every hit interrupts but you loose, lets say, 6 energy. You can sustain about 8 hits (ok, i know you have energy regen, so maybe it lets you take 2 hits more) and then you are you of energy. With flurry warrior strikes about 1 hit/0,9 secs (i might be wrong about this).

So,

50 energy / 6 = 8,3 hits you can sustain
8 hits * 0,9 secs/hit = 7,2 secs (time to hit all 8 hits)
4 energy regen = 1,3 energy / sec
1,3 * 7,2 secs = about 9 energy -> lets you get 1 more hit

Conclusion : Warrior may attack total of 9 or 10 hits before you run out of energy. It may work or may not. Hope you can test that build out to see how it works

SS only interrupts skills. I think it may also knockdown during the after cast too, but I'm not sure, but the main thing is, you are not wasting energy by interrupting mere melee swings or projectile tosses.

Kellogs · Jun 26, 2005, 11:32 PM // 23:32

very interesting posts here I will definitely have to try this with a ranger

Thanks for the idea... never even thought of it like that heh, using ice mods on your weapons for SS to work with a ranger... pretty good idea :thumbsup:

Desperado1G · Jun 27, 2005, 12:43 AM // 00:43

17 curses? it's possible to get past 16?

arredondo · Jun 27, 2005, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Heh, you can hit 19 in Curses or Blood...

12+3+1
+2 (Awaken the Blood)
+1 Blood or Curses (20% chance with some focus items.)

That's 19!

Mercury Angel · Jun 29, 2005, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Had a little more luck with:

N/R

Blood: 10 (+1)
Curses: 11 (+4)
Wilderness Survival: 9

Awaken the Blood
Spinal Shivers
Winter
Rigor Mortis
Offering of Blood {E}
Shadow of Fear
Enfeeble
Resurrection Signet

Anybody wearing an elemental mod weapon, or casting elemental spells will trigger Spinal Shivers and interrupt your victim. Considering the amount of Fiery Dragon Swords, and Flame Slingers with Greater Conflagration, and elementalists period, that means quite a few attacks can trigger the interruption, so long as they're directed at your target.
Debuff some enemies while you wait, keep your energy up, and prevent the target from blocking/evading, and you're pretty set.
As long as your party focuses fire, that target isn't getting many skills off.
And if nothing else, you can attack with your cold damage staff/wand to interrupt.

Winter is one of the most inoffensive spirits out there that often seems to have little purpose, and I've rarely seen anyone kill the spirit.

Myodato · Jun 29, 2005, 12:07 PM // 12:07

E/N

Energy Storage (lots)
Water (lots)
Curses (lots)

Spinal Shivers
Ether Prodigy[E]
Armour of Mist (to keep you out of trouble whilst you have no energy)
Anything you like x5

+ a Water staff.

Huge energy pool, and an easy way to refill it. Actually, this build is too good. Maybe I shouldn't have posted...........